But don’t get too excited everyone, planned meant that they decided to scrap the idea after it’d play havoc with the stereoscopic 3D the 3DS uses. There’s a lot of interesting information coming from this interview though, so I’ll give my thoughts on each point:
On the topic of a Super Mario 3D Land sequel
I already mentioned that he said Mario 3D Land would be a difficult and unlikely game to make a sequel too, but the point is repeated in this interview. Not going to repeat what Mr Hayashida said, since it’s both exactly the same as what he said the last time and only tangently related to the question. Still, best not to expect a Super Mario Galaxy 2 style sequel to the game on 3DS since it’s probably not coming.
As for the Super Mario 64 remake…
Nope. They used a Mario 64 level to test out the 3D effect, but…
we figured out very quickly was that that way the levels were all designed was going to create so many stereo window violations – where an object would come in between Mario and the camera – that we knew we were going to need a different approach.
Mario 64 wouldn’t work in true 3D then. Best not to think about it any more. If you need an even shorter and arguably best explanation:
we did rule out a remake of Super Mario 64 in stereoscopic view on the Nintendo 3DS.
No Super Mario 64 remake on the 3DS for you then. Not that anyone should need one, we did have Super Mario 64 DS on the last Nintendo handheld console, right? Is that not enough for some people? I’d think remaking the same game multiple times is overkill.
As for his favourite Super Mario 3D Land level, it is…
The final boss battle apparently. In his own words:
but my favorite stage is probably the very last Bowser fight. So not the one that you get the regular ending from, but rather after you clear all the special worlds you have this special fight with Bowser and the fireballs he shoots become much faster. It’s a good challenge.
Hang on, what? I don’t recall any change in the speed of the fireballs in either the final boss battle or any of the Dry Bowser battles. How can it be a good challenge if it’s practically impossible to notice?
Apparently he likes the 3D effect when Bowser shoots fireballs towards the screen.
Do you have a favorite song from the Mario games?
This one isn’t exactly surprisingly, he says his favourite song is the first Super Mario Bros theme because it ‘uses the rhythm of gameplay to create that sound’. Or is timed to go well with the sound effects. Listen to it yourself and see if you agree with him:
This song started it all…
There’s a pretty interesting question they ask him next, namely why people love Kuribo’s Shoe so much. Should be interesting, right? Well, the answer is…
Because it’s fun to get into a vehicle that you’ve taken away from an enemy. Or perhaps because it’s cute to look at.
Have to admit that’s a kind of disappointing answer since that’s not exactly why anyone I know likes the shoe as a power up. I’d personally argue it’s because it makes Mario feel powerful and somewhat cool, and because it lets him jump on otherwise dangerous enemies. Otherwise wouldn’t more people like the Lakitu Cloud as an item?
However, one great point is raised after asking why the Japanese game industry’s struggles aren’t affecting Nintendo:
but Mario games are probably not as easy to create as most people must think. I feel like every day at work we’re really wracking our brains and working hard.
Thank you. It’s nice that someone is willing to say that designing a Mario game isn’t an easy task, and that they’re really not ‘easy’ to make in comparison to whatever game genre is supposedly popular at the moment. Indeed, I’d say this difficulty is something most indie game, fan game and ROM hack makers discover very, very quickly after trying to build a Mario style platformer. There’s a lot of things Nintendo do right in terms of gameplay design and general entertainment factor that are only noticeable when they’re missing (aka from most amateur works).
If you need more proof, look at this game:
It looks like Super Mario Galaxy, but by no means does it play like it. I guess the Chinese makers thought ripping it off would be enough to make a good game, but they totally forgot about how important the basic game mechanics were to get right and ended up with a shoddy product that played nothing like a Mario game.
But you don’t even need to go into fake games to realise this. Indeed, go back to the SNES and Nintendo 64 days, where Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 rip offs and copycats were a dime a dozen. Only a very small few did as well as the ‘originals’ (namely Rare’s games and a few others). Most just failed due to bad gameplay and being bad games in general. See, any game starring Bubsy the Bobcat.
There’s also a really good point about why Super Mario Galaxy 2 may not have worked as well as the original. You see, they did brainstorming sessions and stuff to come up with things to include in the games, and based the second game off the stuff they couldn’t fit in the first one. But there’s a problem with making a game based on intially cast off ideas:
But now as a director when I look back on those brainstorming thought processes I realize that you come out with a huge amount of ideas, but what you decide to use are the ones that floated to the very top. The ones that seem like they’re going to be especially effective and are going to implement well.
In other words, the first game’s reject pile. That’s why Galaxy 2 was so inconsistent, because it was made up of these kinds of ideas:
Those that weren’t too good in the first place but were arguably good enough to be in a Mario game (presumably much of world S)
Those that were difficult to implement/use the first time around.
Ideas which are just hard to put to good use
Presumably it’d be like a book publisher deciding to take all the ideas from the slush pile and compile into an anthology to sell, most of the ideas just wouldn’t be particularly good ones (hence why they weren’t ‘accepted’ in the first place).
That’s also a reason so many video games scrap a lot of things that were in the beta versions; they looked cool but either couldn’t find a way to fit them in, couldn’t make them work or they just weren’t fun to play.
This ties into the question about why there’s no sequel. Because there’s very few if any Mario 3D Land ideas they left on the cutting room floor so to speak, so there wouldn’t be enough content for such a game.
Also, an amusing point about why ‘girls might identify with Princess Peach’. Oh boy, probably not a great thing to say (either for Hayashida or Game Informer). Never the less:
I would have to say that maybe it’s that Peach has been a playable character in quite a few games recently, when you look at the Mario Kart series, Mario Party, or even the Super Smash Bros. games. Maybe that has given people opportunities to identify with the character. But that does seem to be the case that a lot of young girls do want to play as Princess Peach. Of course, I can’t relate to their position exactly, being a middle-aged man. But that does seem to be the case.
Finally, as for why Mario is so lighthearted and how the world is so cheery and fun in a world filled with somewhat dull ‘realistic’ first person shooters:
I have to say that the fun that comes from Mario games comes from the expression that you see in that world. What we try to do is try to make the most absolutely suitable environment for these really fun expressions
From what I can understand, this means they make the Mushroom Kingdom a place where fun ideas can be implemented and where players can enjoy themselves rather than focusing on storyline or such like. Fun/gameplay first, ‘art’ side second. That’s the way it should be.
It’s a nice interview with a lot of interesting information, and you can read the full thing here:
Ever since the Nintendo 64, the 3D platformer seems to have been neglected a tad in favour of other genres. Indeed, last gen the once unthinkable pretty much happened and 2D platformers seem to have made a comeback with games like New Super Mario Bros Wii, Donkey Kong Country Returns and Rayman Origins flying off the shelves and games like Mega Man 9 and 10 being sold on digital distribution platforms. But now with Super Mario 3D Land fading away and the Galaxy series likely history, is it time for a more traditional 3D Mario platformer? The type of game that helped the Nintendo 64, like Super Mario 64 or Banjo Kazooie?
I think so, and here’s why:
1. Nintendo has learned from the collectathon mistake
Which means they can now avoid making the exact same mistakes they and Rare made at the end of the Nintendo 64/start of the Gamecube’s lifespan; focusing their games on collecting random junk rather than platforming. That’s not to say a collectathon can’t be a good game, and titles like Super Mario 64 and both Banjo Kazooie games were excellent, it’s just that later games took it too far.
Look at Donkey Kong 64 for example, it had so much collecting of colour coded objects that some say it singlehandedly killed the genre by turning people away from the game style. It sold well I’ll give it that, but did they really need things like the five colours of banana, the blueprints and the fairies?
Or Super Mario Sunshine too, which ended up having so much money lying around to collect it got to the point of utter tedium sometimes. Not just the Blue Coins either, look at how it seemed every other level was about collecting red coins for some purpose or another (levels like Bianco Hills actually had four shines dedicated to this type of activity!)
Going through the secret levels with FLUDD to get red coins was just filler.
But that’s all in the past now. Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario 3D Land showed us that a 3D Mario game which doesn’t rely on collecting things is entirely plausible, all we now need is for Nintendo to make the worlds larger and still keep the same traditional gameplay that made these games so popular. Is there a real reason we can’t now have large open ‘sandbox’ style levels to explore where all the stars are obtained through either exploring the environment or navigating tricky jumps rather than doing pointless fetch quests? Not really.
Even Super Mario 64 had signs of this with missions like ‘to the top of the fortress’ or ‘into the volcano’ or ‘stand tall on the four pillars’. Where the game then went wrong was by shoving a pointless red coin mission into every single course in the game then making you collect a hundred coins in each for the hell of it.
Did Rainbow Ride ever really need a maze with red coins in it?
But now Nintendo’s learned from their mistakes and knows how to design a 3D platformer without a fetch quest in every level, maybe it’s the time to bring back open plan 3D courses and the choice of tackling the missions in any order.
2. Nintendo themselves admit they’d find it hard to make a new Galaxy game or a 3D Land sequel
Read back to the recent comments they made at the recent Game Developer’s Conference:
In the case of Super Mario 3D Land, I felt we got so much of what we wanted to do into the game, that we would start from a difficult position in having to come up with something from the same process.
In simple terms, Mario 3D Land did near enough everything they wanted it to do, so a direct sequel like how Mario Galaxy 2 was one to the original Mario Galaxy would be difficult to design/make for them. So let’s assume that’s ruled out for a bit.
From that perspective, to say we’d make another game using the ideas left over from Galaxy 2, it’s very difficult for me to imagine. I feel like we really did research the field very well for possible ideas and we used everything that was reasonably easy to implement.
It comes after a fairly long discussion of the design process used for Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 (read here), but it’s safe to assume that’s out the picture for a fair amount of time as well since all the good ideas were used in either the first or second game. Heck, even the second game was difficult to make given how they didn’t have quite that many new ideas to keep it interesting at first and had to come up with new ones from scratch after a while.
Which makes me think now could be a good time to revisit the Super Mario 64 or Super Mario Sunshine gameplay style. It’s been a long time since a new Mario game with the feel of those two, and if Super Mario Advance 3 is any indication, going back to an old game ‘style’ and making new levels for it leads one to come up with all kinds of interesting ideas:
Those are arguably some of the most creative levels in the Mario series to date, all made because the developers went back many years later with a fresh perspective and new ideas and added them to ported versions of the original. I think if Nintendo went back and made new Mario 64 or Sunshine style levels, we’d get a lot of new ideas there as well. Combining what they learnt from making Super Mario Galaxy and 3D Land with the gameplay style of 64 or Sunshine could work wonders for a new Mario game.
3. People have wanted such a game for many years
Fairly obvious point this, there’s always been a fair demand for a Mario 64 or Sunshine type sequel, hasn’t there? Indeed, there was quite a lot of hype back when Super Mario 64 2 was still in development.
As well as plenty of ideas about what a proper 3D Mario game could be like.
So why haven’t we had one again?
4. The increased power of Nintendo hardware means better 3D worlds are possible now
You can especially see how much technology has moved on by how games nowadays can easily handle vast open worlds that earlier consoles would have choked on. In fact, many minor problems I recall about 3D platformers were only a problem because Nintendo 64/Playstation 1 era hardware wasn’t capable of the things the developers wanted the game to do.
For example, people say that many of Rare’s later games had quite a low frame rate for Nintendo 64 games simply because there was so much going on at one time that the Nintendo 64 itself was having trouble handling it. The likes of Jungle Japes and Creepy Castle in Donkey Kong 64 or Grunty Industries in Banjo Tooie was arguably a little much for the poor machine to cope with at the time, even with the expansion pack in use. But there’d be no problems with Wii or even Wii U level console hardware, would there?
It’s just that you could do so much more with a 3D platformer in this day and age than you could in the Nintendo 64 or early Gamecube era. The graphics would be much better meaning the levels wouldn’t look so… well, non Mario like (see many Super Mario 64 levels that could probably pass off as real locations due to a lack of colour and an almost ‘industrial’ look to them). The characters wouldn’t look so basic or blocky like they did in Nintendo 64 games, or as weird as they did in Sunshine. If this is what people have achieved just by altering Super Mario 64:
Pity they used a terrible rip of a Yoshi’s Island background…
Then Nintendo could do so much better by making a new 3D Mario platformer with a similar gameplay style for a modern console. Imagine what it’d be like if you had a Mario 64 game that looked like Galaxy did!
That version of Peach’s Castle just makes you want such a thing even more, right?
5. Nintendo could come up with so many interesting levels in this style now
Look at how varied and interesting your average Super Mario 3D Land level is, then imagine what it’d be like if that kind of stuff was included in a proper 3D platformer in the style of Super Mario 64 or Sunshine. The levels look really nice already, I’d just prefer it if we could get a proper 3D platformer with this style of graphics and music and some of the clever ideas included.
Imagine doing things like running around open worlds with the Tanooki Suit or Fire Flower and only losing it once you get hit like the old days! Imagine having enemies like Hammer Bros, Magikoopas and Chargin’ Chucks as standard in open world Mario 64 like courses! Or how cool it’d be if every time you came across a Bowser level it worked like the ones in Galaxy, minus the gravity:
Things sure have moved on since the like of Bowser in the Fire Sea, haven’t they?
It’s just with the constant move towards more linear levels and more gimmicky ‘themes’, we’ve never seen what an old school 3D Mario game with modern technology would actually be like. Then again, is that really so weird? We’ve never seen what an old school 2D one would be like with Mario Galaxy’s production values either. Nintendo are missing a trick here in more ways than one!
So with all that said, I think the time may be right for an old style 3D Mario platformer in the same style as Super Mario 64 and Sunshine, and that such a game would work really well on the Wii U or possibly 3DS.
What do you think?
Image from http://vgboxart.com/view/40753/super-mario-sunshine-2-cover/ and by Spritey
Really we do when you look back at the console’s history of ‘important’ games so far, since it seems like at least half of them can be beaten entirely within a single day. Examples include the following:
Super Mario 3D Land
Extremely easy Mario platformer than can be beaten in just a few hours despite having 16 worlds to play through. It’s a fantastic game, and I know it’s been intended as an introduction 3D Mario games for new players… but it really leaves fans of the older games like Super Mario 64 and Sunshine rather wanting as far as content goes.
Above: This battle was great, pity I got there and beat it in about three hours.
Think about it. It has about 70 unique levels with only one objective, which even doubled isn’t really the same amount of content you’d find in any of the older 3D Mario games like Galaxy.
Mario Kart 7
Another great game which seems to have it’s replay value halved by the complete lack of a single mode with substance to it.
Or just a lack of options, since with no single player vs mode, mission mode, time trial leaderboards, competitions or anything else to keep people playing if they want to try stuff other than wifi races, it feels like a rather empty Mario Kart game.
Above: No Nintendo, making you get thousands of coins for stuff like this is padding, not content.
Which is a bit of a pity really, since the game had the best track selection of the series to date and so many reasons to want to replay it time and time again, but just got a bit dull quickly because you’d done everything too soon.
Most Nintendo 3DS launch games (especially Pilotwings and Steel Diver)
These apparently have only a few hours worth of content at best from what I heard, hardly the best value for money for anyone who bought the console at the launch date.
Supposedly feels more like a tech demo due to lacking an arcade (main single player) mode or character customisation, or even character specific endings. Official Nintendo Magazine said it had an impressive game engine and not much else to it.
So that leaves us with considerably fewer options for 3DS games sold at retail that also have a significant amount of content in them. Ocarina of Time 3D is a pretty good exception to this rule (you should know by now the game’s almost overflowing with side quests, mini games and bonus options to keep your interest) and it seems Kid Icarus Uprising looks to be another one (being made by Sakurai, the guy behind the Super Smash Bros and Kirby series helps here, he can’t seemingly make a single game without filling it with as much stuff as possible), but by and large it seems a lot of 3DS games that are out now tend to be quite short.
Above: At least Kid Icarus Uprising looks to have a decent amount of content in it.
On the bright side, the future looks to have a few 3DS games that’ll hopefully buck the trend and have a fair amount of content in them. We’ve got the inevitable Super Smash Bros 3DS (we all know by now that the Smash Bros series has more content in one game than some other franchises do in their entire history), Paper Mario 3DS (Paper Mario games always offer at least eight long chapters minimum as well as at least one pit of 100 trials to keep the interest of fans) and New Super Mario Bros 3DS will most probably offer a fair amount of content as well (2D Mario games always offer a high amount of levels, and they’re usually longer than those in Mario 3D Land). Not to mention Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, many RPGs and if it turns out to be real, Donkey Kong 3D (the Donkey Kong Country series is at least hard enough you won’t breeze through it in a day, and it usually comes with a lot of bonuses to collect as well).
Above: And if it turns out Donkey Kong 3D is a Donkey Kong 64 remake, that’s enough content to last a life time.
Still it would be nice to have some longer 3DS games soon, right? Because I’m getting a little tired of the games that seem to be over and done with in a few hours and don’t give me a whole lot of incentive to go back and replay them.
Do you want 3DS games with a greater amount of content in them?
Not so much shortcuts, in fact one of these is the very definition of an ‘anti shortcut’ in some way.
First of all, a glider speed trick at Toad Circuit:
Apparently you gain speed and shoot down and forward when the kart gets out of the ‘stuck’ state. You can also end up inside the ground if it goes wrong, which is interesting.
But that’s not the only interesting new Mario Kart glitch around…
This trick at Maple Treeway is kind of hilarious:
Above: One cool glitch with some interesting uses.
Yes you saw that happen, he jumped from the last part with the houses and glider ramp all the way BACK to where you land afterthe barrel cannon. Even better, it’s a real glitch, I did it just now and ended up back at the exact same place. Even Lakitu accepts you’re going the right way once you land.
But seeing as you end all the way near the start of the level and effectively wasted a third of a lap, you really do not want to do this in any setting outside of time trials. Nice glitch though.
One cunning Japanese hoaxer did find a use for the above glitch though, to fake a new ultimate shortcut in the same track. You see, you can also find this video on Youtube as well which supposedly shows a massive glitch that can break Maple Treeway. Initially I assume people will panic and assume the worst:
Above: If this was in English, everyone would be in panic mode by now.
But note a few factors. Like how his time is suspiciously high for so early in the lap (I assume he’s on lap 2 or something, but still). Or how if you try and jump off the track in this exact same spot you’ll either get put back right before the Wigglers (98% of the time) or the middle of the turn before (2% of the time).
So I then rewatched the first video and thought ‘maybe he used this glitch to set up the ‘shortcut’. And then I used the same glitch, got back to the spot and jumped off again…
Voila, now Metal Mario was placed on the bridge below. Pretty cunning way to fake a Mario Kart 7 shortcut, don’t you think? Race round most of the track, glitch back to an earlier section then fall off with the correct timing.
What breaks the illusion even more is that one you end up ‘back’ on the earlier section of track, the game thinks you’re still by the bridge/glider ramp. So you don’t need to fall at any one particular point, just by falling off the track ANYWHERE you end up in that exact same spot on the exact same bridge. To prove this I even raced past the Wiggler filled mud section and following boost pads and then fell off the track there, and I still ended up at the same spot from the video.
This guy demonstrates what I mean:
Above: Taking apart fraudulent Mario Kart shortcuts like Mystery Inc take down fake ghosts.
With that all said, two more interesting glitches in Mario Kart 7. Nothing game breaking yet, but give it time, since it took months for Mario Kart Wii’s latest glitch shortcuts to be found (they only found the later Mario Circuit and Coconut Mall ones after people generally stopped playing the game).
Above: Very few people probably cared about this one now, the hackers got to the game before the glitch could be used to break online.
Still, what do you think of these new glitches? And more interesting, what track do you see as being next to have an ‘ultra shortcut’ found for it?
Then where are the more ‘advanced’ titles that these new fans should be moving onto? Because while Nintendo have said this about the game’s purpose:
We thought of setting the difficulty level about as low as we could go realistically for this game because we saw this as an entry point to the Mario games for a lot of people. So the way we see it is someone would pick up Super Mario 3D Land and play that, and then maybe they would move onto Super Mario Galaxy or Super Mario Sunshine or Super Mario 64 after that.
It doesn’t really make a lot of sense when you think about it. So let’s suppose some past 2D Mario fan plays Super Mario 3D Land after New Super Mario Bros Wii and decides they want to try a more ‘complex’ 3D Mario title. Where they going to get one again?
Every single 3D Mario game released since Super Mario Sunshine has been trying to tone down the series to make it more and more accessible for new gamers. But doesn’t that kill a lot of the point as far as making the games ‘entry level’ goes? If every new 3D Mario game from now on is less complex than every 3D Mario game made before hand, why would anyone need to know how to move onto Super Mario Galaxy or 64?
Something tells me this current arrangement isn’t pleasing anyone. The newer fans don’t have the incentive to try more 3D Mario games since they don’t really require much more skill or time/knowledge than 3D Land does. The older fans don’t get another experience like Super Mario 64 or Sunshine and the people who stuck to the 2D games don’t really care less; they’re not buying the 3D ones anyway.
Hopefully since Super Mario 3D Land has come and gone (and been fairly received as far as sales go), Nintendo are going to make the Wii U Mario platformer a lot more complex to please the people who want a more interesting 3D Mario game. On another note, maybe a Super Mario Sunshine remake would be a good test of this ‘entry game’ theory Nintendo has? If Super Mario 64 DS did so well back in the DS days, and Super Mario 3D Land is supposedly an introduction to 3D Mario games to make the 2D game fans want to try the more complex ones, then shouldn’t in theory a Super Mario Sunshine remake be evidence of whether said fans have moved on? If it sells about as good as 3D Land did, we know Nintendo’s right and people introduced into the series by said game are willing to try more complex games. If it fails miserably, then we know Nintendo’s idea is totally off the mark and the games are not catching on.
Is this a good point?
Quote from Koichi Hayashida
Image from http://vgboxart.com/view/42086/super-mario-sunshine-3ds-cover/, design by ‘Warioloaf’.